jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



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talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive

saving my parents by all means necessary

I feel overwhelmed by jesus sometimes. I have trouble knowing what the feeling is. Sometimes love, it reminds me of what it feels like to have my mother give me advice... sometimes a tremble deep in the heart. Sometimes fear and dread. Many times its worry.

Im not always sure if the feeling is comming from jesus. For example sometimes I say the word jesus and I feel sick. BUt sometimes I feel the want to talk to god and if I make that my intention then the feeling is better. I have a feeling I consider the "Being honest with myself feeling" (or intention)

In order to be honestwith myself I have to accept jesus

I also hear voices. So the voices help me interpret the feelings.

I’m not really sure what’s going on with the voices I hear. I think I have thought complexes inside of me that believe in Christianity and are trying to warn me or save me. Or maybe my mind is trying to save itself or me. Maybe these are the strongest imprints all my exposure to christianity has made on my mind. maybe these are the kind of demons a free thinker gets.

Negative voices (are sad and dark and many times downright mean or angry):

Yes, there’s fire underneath. Its that bad, its that bad.

You know the truth, Only Jesus can save you. There’s nothing you can do. Nothing. You deserve it.

Why are you denying god. He’s trying to help you. You know its true. Nothing can save you.

Your parents are heading for hell. You are damned and you know it. We are trying to help you.

Eternal darkness. Fire! Fire! Torment. Etenral torment. You are EVIL. All are evil.

In the end, you will burn.

The fire wont be put out. Good luck in hell.

You can feel jesus. You know hes real. Theres nothing you can do. you caught the spirit. you will burn, foreal.



Positive voices (Assuming I have nothing to fear from any gods or devils)… these voices are friendlier and urgent:

This cant be right. Keep the faith. THINK! Keep going. Keep pushing.

Help the world, see through it. You are ok, it’s a lie. See through it, I can help you, keep thinking. You’re fine. The world needs help. Your out of your mind. Your out of it.

You committed no blasphemy, you just questioned.

trust us

theres no burning, thats evil. cant you see? thats evil. "truth"

is jesus real? its all bull****, dont you see. there are famines in the world right now. think of what we could do. snap out of it. you dont need them. escape.

dont trust your heart, you are brainwashed. its obvious




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So its hard for me to interpret my feelings. Many times I think my feelings are being falsely represented.

Most of the time I am sad and lonely, ashamed or terrified I feel really really really weird about god.

Im not really motivated to succeed in life, Im kind of pathetic and helpless in that regard. I always have been but Ill get to that in another post. ITs important if you are a psychologist to know the backstory, and I kind of get a picture of whats going on from a psychological standpoint.... They say Im supposed to focus on life and growing up since I was always a failure (or more importantly I viewed myself as a failure and constantly reinforced the self view by taking easy ways out or making terrible mistakes) and with enough radical changes maybe things can be reversed...

biologically/psychologically... why are there people like me? well Im a weak specimen that hasnt adapted right to my society. Instead of being defective in aphysical trait (humans, unlike animals really on their minds most of all) my defections are all in my head. The mind is the trait that adapts to the environment (society) and I have been maladapted so long that I think its a self feeding process of negativity and failure. In ghana I would be shunned by everyone as a failure and thus I would be cursed. In japan I would be so overwhelmed by self loathing and dishonor that I killed myself. In haiti I would be turned into a "zombie" and sold into slavery by an underground policing agency. In some places I would already be dead.. ANd in many places I would be crazy, in jail, on the streets, or a suicide.

sure i can think, but I havnt learned the right lessons to adapt to society and success in it. SO Im going against the biological drive to simply live.... Sometimes animals just give up and die. Many societies are compassionate and try to do somethign for the failures or defuncts, ti goes against nature. ITs why conservatives are so mad at taxes or homeless people. I mean the one thing we HAVE to do by deAULT in this weird world is LIVE. And societies in many cases need members to be self suffiecient, which I am not!


but thats another story

But religion issues are to worrysome for me (I used to worry about such pointless crap lol... but what is it now? haha) And the voices make it hard to concentrate on anything and even if I didnt hear voices I cant keep from thinking and questioning. Il lprobably end up in a looney bin or homeless, Im too afraid of hell to kill myself.

I hear voices telling me Im denying the holy spirit, and that there is a feeling from god telling me its him and that I know the truth. Every time I read about science or about mental disorders or about the weird faulty history of the world (And I know most people dont have a clue about this but if you try and research the way the bible links up with scholarly work and the movement and development and history of the different jews, cananites, hitites and egyptians and other bible people you might think a little) every time (Well many times) that I reason about the absurdity of belief or about the weridness of the immense fear that ideas like god have the potential to create I will hear vocies telling me "is it worth it?" or "you will see what you get"

right now I should be studying for college but the voices distract me from reading, and If I focus enough a thought about god will distract me. Or I might think that god is talking to me in my heart. (this is what just happened I asked jesus to come into my heart and I told him I didnt want to deny him) I had gotten off the phone with my mom and I felt loved and then I started thinking to myself if that was the feeling I associated with getting from god (and Im never sure when the feeling from god is legitamite or not, well actually I am, the voices inform me that I KNOW when the feeling is from god, and that Im denying him and lying to myself and that I nkow that jesus is real, and in the course of self examination I have realized that I do know when its from god) Right now Im trying to get god into my heart so Ican examine the feeling but the feeling wont come, I feel like Im in trouble and a voice is telling me "dont test god"

Basicially something out there doesnt want me to even be writing this. The vocie tells me that the devil has me and that I know Im evil, Im truly evil and I need to save my parents.

the voice tells me "you have no future without jesus"

Right now Im trying to pray to get the feeling but Im not sure when its an honest prayer. I have to make myself know that "something" (I havnt figured out exactly what it is)

I think I have to "know" that jesus is my savior in a certain way that god likes and when I do that he gives me a feeling that I am ok. If you read my other posts you know that I think the idea of knowing and believing is really funny. (me typing this just caused a positive feeling in my heart)

I think biologically my emotions might be screwed. (a voice just told me to pray)

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A lot of the voices center around me "knowing the truth" or me "knowing something about something involving the way god works"


Its time I tell you about my confirmation statement. Ill post the whole thing up sometimes, I made it in eighth grade after going through the confirmation statemnt. Sometimes reading statements like these makes me feel good, but many times the voices tell me Im just reading them to test god and I dont really believe.

statements:

I beleive in god and I believe jesus is his only son and I know he is real and that I can always ask him for anytihng and he will always answer me.

I beleive Jesus died for me. well here is my confirmation statment. IT contains all the points I was encouraged to include as well as the reason for it (the part I had to think about on my own)

a voice just told me "its not worth it, you know... you are gonna BURN for this"

satan just told me to keep up the good work I should add halfway through writing this next bit...

I believe that there is a God and I believe in Him. I know He exists and have faith in Him because of the great world I live in. I think of the awesomeness and complexity of the universe and all of the things on earth. Its hard to explain it with words but he was the creator because of the warmth of the sun and the huge ocean and the millions of species of plants and animals. I see gods work especially when I sit and watch the world and hear the birds in the trees and the rolling of ocean waves.And also because of the feelings of love, family friends, and dreams.

I believe that Jesus Christ, God's only son, is my lord and savior and that he and God love me. I believe Jesus died for me and in all the miracles that happened when he was on earth including his resurrection. And even though all these things are hard to imagine, I think of the fact that this planet has life on it out of all the trillions of planets, I think thats a miracle. O ther everyday miracles are when people have a terminal illness and they recover. SO I believe all the miracles in the bible.

And I know jesus loves me and I can always ask his forgiveness and he will give it. And I believe in eternal life after death if I live as a christian.

I want to lead a Christian life and attend worship and learn to better understand and interpret the bible and I want to show God's love and try never to hate and go on missions. And I will give my time to be part of the Presbyterian Church and take part in it. And I will have a relationship with god and Jesus now and in the eternal Life after Death.


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there are also church hymns that I sang.

two of the most powerful was one that was about moses or any old christian being called by god to fix people. and one about knowing the truth


the first one I cant remember correctly but It had a beautiful power and melody.I the lord of sea and rain, I have heard my peoples pain da da daa da daa da daa, who shall I send?

here I am lord, if you need me. I have heard you calling in the night. I will go lord, If you lead me. I will lead your people to (the light? Im not sure)

I will fix their hearts of stone, give them hearts of love alone who will something sometihng.... who shall I send (and then the above chorus again)

I think the song is called here I am lord. everyone loved that one. Im actually happy after writing those lyrics. ( a few voices are whispering "hes called." "hes called!")

another one that I am reminded of since a internal voice keeps on telling me YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!is this one.

and it goes!

you shall know the truth
you shall know the truth
jesus is the truth and the truth shall set you free
jesus is the truth
you shall know the truth
jesus is the truth and the truth shall set you free!

cant remember the rest of the words.

(voices saying hey hey! hes real! you can save them!)

I feel really good and normal right now, wait the feeling just went away.



what prompted me to write all of this is that I have a terrible life! hey! the world is insane! there is some incredibly terrible crazy terrible shit that happens in it and right now I feel great! Im not sure if its because I feel like praising god or if I jsut proved how I was brainwashed to somethign deep down in my feeling center. Maybe I was just nostalgic about church.

But anyway now the voice is saying "hes a psycho, this is a psychological nightmare!"

now I will go into what really prompted me to write this.

I felt I could maybe save my parents if I got a gun and put it to their heads and made them pray until I was certain they really felt saved, but they would probably be lying to me.

oh man! a voice just remided me of another song. the voice said tell all the world

there was a song that went

"tell all the world" that was a big part of the song.

tell all the world (sing we noel) tell all the world (noel noel)
tell all the world that sometihng something something

oh man that song was amazing. if you have not heard it you need to.

I feel positively wonderful right now!

we had some bad ass christmas programs back in the day.

now that I think about it the best thing for me might be to go back to church and sing in choir. I wish I wouldnt feel so evil when I listen to vodou music.

a discussion with my parents

This is something I feel I should write. I walked into the kitchen of my parents house and felt scared that my mom, dad and I are gonna end up in hell. I wasn’t sure why I felt this way. I mean that on one hand I’m not sure why I felt they would end up in hell. I’m not sure why I'm debating that a place called hell exists or why people should have to wonder if they will end up there. I’m also not sure why I was scared if that might be the case. Both scared that I might go there, and worried that my parents might.

My dad I think is an atheist, or at least his position is that no one has any reason to assume any belief without proof is valid. My mother says she doesn’t doubt that Jesus may have felt he died for our sins, and she thinks he was like any great prophet who wanted to help us live consciously and lovingly. I asked her if she felt like she knew that Jesus was really her savior or if she felt she might be denying god. She said she had no way of knowing those things without taking a leap of faith and she said she couldn’t discount other religions because she thought there wasn’t only one right way. I asked her why and she said because there are other religions and we can’t discredit the rest of the world because of the politically imposed of the Christian religion. I asked her if she ever tried to test Jesus to see if he was real. She said she might have when she was younger and surrounded by the religion, but not anymore. She wont try now (As I write) she wasn’t taught to test Jesus when she was younger. (50s and early 60s small town Wisconsin) she said either you have faith or you don’t. I Said there has to be a reason people believe something. She said every culture has faith in something, and people have had faiths before Jesus. She said people with blind faith end up trying to discredit evolution and other things and that what I am doing with her is pointless.

I said I was asking her to be honest with her feelings and she said she strives to be honest and that it doesn’t feel to be dishonest and that it isn’t helpful in relationships. So I asked her again if she ever asked Jesus if he was real and if he could come into her heart. The extent of her praying, she said, had to do with asking that if god knows what’s going on, please help me to direct my family in the best way possible so each of them can be decent people. She also asked god to please help her son find himself so he can be happy in life. I asked her whom she thought she was talking to when she prayed to god and she said I don’t know. She then said that prayer works as a sort meditation for some people and thinking about things quietly helps them figure things out.

She says she thinks I am stuck on worrying about one right way or else hell, and that I cant think past that. And that for many of her Christian friends, prayer helps them think more lucidly or rationally about their problems.

She asked me if she was making sense to me or if I was going to discredit it because it didn’t fit in with the way I was thinking about things at the moment (I’m terrified of hell we will try and see why later). I told her I sometimes felt that Jesus was real. In a spiritual way. I say that this means I have to see what I think about the bible, since you learn about Jesus through the bible.


I asked her to sometimes ask Jesus if he was calling her. But she said she wasn’t really looking for it and had a lot of things going on in her life. She says that doing tai chi and learning about Taoism is very appealing to her and also tolerant of other cultures. She thinks other spiritualities will answer more of her questions for her. I asked her to still try sometimes but she said she would never have done something like that. And that she would have to be more open to that thought process in order to do something like that.




Sometimes the minister of her father’s church says open your hearts, let him in during service. And she says that in this setting (she visits her father a few times a year) she feels to think about the things in life most important to her like her family. I asked her if she ever felt like Jesus was coming into her heart. She said that was too mysterious of a question for her. She said one can have a good feeling by thinking about problems in life and thinking clearly about them and making positive steps towards fixing problems and that is what she thinks about when she prays, and that some people attribute this feeling of clarity to god.



I asked her if she ever thought she was feeling gods love in her heart. She said maybe when little because then she was told to label the thought as god, but she has learned to think for herself and realize that these feelings might come from a combination of things. I asked her if she felt deep down that she knew that the feeling was from Jesus. She said no. I asked her if she was sure, she said yes. Asked her if she was positive, she said I was pushing it and that she was trying to be reasonable with me.

some ancient egyption thought

the egyptians realized the limiting nature of language and reasonable thought.



anyway an example of the egyptian thought is this. insppired by reading the metu neter...

think about medicine and poison.

westerners define medicine as something that harms man and poison as something that hurts him.

but in reality a thing classified as amedicine is just a thing. if the thing interacts with another thing, it interacts. in the right interaction it could be harmful to something else, and then in that interaction, to that something else, the thing would be a poison.

but in a different interaction, the thing could be a medicine. for example snake venom in the right does can fix problems.

in the end is snake venom fixing problems or causing them.

even if it kills someone, this is only causing aproblem if we say that we dont want the human to die.

if it cures them of something, this is only helping if we say that we wanted to improve the persons state of being. in the end all that happened was an interaction

can we limit an interaction to a cure or a ailment?

some medicines are defined as fixing a certain disorder. but then the doctor wil lsay that the medicine has side effects.

in reality a certain dosage, combined with a human with some biological presets, causes a set of interactions. depending on definitions these interactions become cures, problems, annoyances.

but there is not really a such thing as a side affect.

and this way of thinking about languge can be expanded in ways that can drive me nuts.

suicide??

There are people right now that feel so bad or depressed or hopeless that they want to kill themselves. Maybe they can be talked out of it. Maybe their life could be improved.

But to them, its so bad tat suicide is reasonable to them.



What does god have for them after this? Eternal hell? Does this seem right?

Maybe a suicide is just like any old death, and if they "had Jesus" then they will be ok.


Does god control when we die? Is god controlling death when someone commits suicide?

If he isn’t, then how much power do we have?

If we have power, the consequences are obviously not under our control after death. So what kind of power is it?

People liken god to a parent.

Would a parent devise a situation for their children giving them power to ruin themselves forever? What kind of power is that?

Maybe that’s what life is, a big opportunity to succeed or fail at something.

But that’s in the eyes of a human focused on worldly events.

God has eternity in mind

do people realize how crazy this is.

Obviously comparing god to creator is a little different dynamic than comparing parents to kids, or a judicial system to a condemned man. (And our judicial system is a system that serves more to implant a picture in our heads than to do the right thing, so why religious people compare god to a court of law is un known on many playing fields)




I was watching de javu, and it had a line that I’m sure Jesus crusaders would love to throw at me. "Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity"

well I’m a man. We are all human. We have nothing else besides reason. Even when religious people get lost in games of words like belief and faith, or try and tell people that they know what god wants and what his wants for us are, they are still using reason. They are using language dynamics, that’s all we have. We have nothing else. Its how we think.

Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity is an argument, it’s a comparison, and it’s designed to make a point. These are all within the framework of thought, understanding, reason.

There is nothing we can say. As LONG AS WE ARE CONVEYING IDEAS THROUGH SOUND, AND I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE WE COULD POSSIBLY BE DOING OR HOW ELSE WE COULD BE COMMUNICATING, as long as we are doing this. We are using reason.

life is a drop in te bucket, so to god, whats the purpose?

it seems simply to weed out those who are with him or against him.

we live on earth

earth and everything it is possible to learn or percieve while on earth is the evidence we are presented with.

at one point in time we have to decide if we beleive in what the followers of christianity and jesus are saying is true.

if we make the right choice before we die, we exist for eternity in (from new international bible, an addtional comment was paraphrased): "the joy of heaven is beyond our understanding or comprehension, but the descriptions in this passage make it clear that it is not something that humans would want to miss" (remember this was paraphrased form a NIV study version, passage explained at the bottom of page)


for each human, life is a drop in the bucket, and its up to a mystery (fate? destiny? god?) who sees and knows what, and makes the right choice.

they say gods enemy is satan. and he is on the prowl.

well he has done a great job.

no telling how much he controls on earth, there is a good bet that he managed to plant dinosaur bones that we would carbon date to being very very old, he also gave the buddists, egyptians and hindus knowledge that allows them to see beyond a world of human perception and human reality, a world that sounds more like what quantom mechanics is talking about. physics must obviously be controlled by the devil too.

so why is god doing this whole experiment

i guess thats one of the mysteries that lets faithful christians keep their sense of "whimsy and wonder"

to an outside observer

lets say christianity is true

now lets also invent an outside observer.

he sees whats going on.


we are all born

we are all in this together


if i die tomorrow. id go to hell accordig to christians.

lets say tomorrow instead i accept jesus, and live two more years and then die

now i get heaven



multiply this little game by billions

this is what the outside observer sees

its absolutely ridiculous

"better make the right choice before this too late!!!"

we are all in this together that has to be. every man is my brother, but for fate we could be anywhere in this world.

to the outside observer he sees millions dieing

millions going to heaven, millions going to hell

but thats the reality, not random, not ordered, its just happening


lets say this outside observer is a human

does it seem right to him or not?