the egyptians realized the limiting nature of language and reasonable thought.
anyway an example of the egyptian thought is this. insppired by reading the metu neter...
think about medicine and poison.
westerners define medicine as something that harms man and poison as something that hurts him.
but in reality a thing classified as amedicine is just a thing. if the thing interacts with another thing, it interacts. in the right interaction it could be harmful to something else, and then in that interaction, to that something else, the thing would be a poison.
but in a different interaction, the thing could be a medicine. for example snake venom in the right does can fix problems.
in the end is snake venom fixing problems or causing them.
even if it kills someone, this is only causing aproblem if we say that we dont want the human to die.
if it cures them of something, this is only helping if we say that we wanted to improve the persons state of being. in the end all that happened was an interaction
can we limit an interaction to a cure or a ailment?
some medicines are defined as fixing a certain disorder. but then the doctor wil lsay that the medicine has side effects.
in reality a certain dosage, combined with a human with some biological presets, causes a set of interactions. depending on definitions these interactions become cures, problems, annoyances.
but there is not really a such thing as a side affect.
and this way of thinking about languge can be expanded in ways that can drive me nuts.
Saturday, March 31, 2007
Friday, February 2, 2007
suicide??
There are people right now that feel so bad or depressed or hopeless that they want to kill themselves. Maybe they can be talked out of it. Maybe their life could be improved.
But to them, its so bad tat suicide is reasonable to them.
What does god have for them after this? Eternal hell? Does this seem right?
Maybe a suicide is just like any old death, and if they "had Jesus" then they will be ok.
Does god control when we die? Is god controlling death when someone commits suicide?
If he isn’t, then how much power do we have?
If we have power, the consequences are obviously not under our control after death. So what kind of power is it?
People liken god to a parent.
Would a parent devise a situation for their children giving them power to ruin themselves forever? What kind of power is that?
Maybe that’s what life is, a big opportunity to succeed or fail at something.
But that’s in the eyes of a human focused on worldly events.
God has eternity in mind
do people realize how crazy this is.
Obviously comparing god to creator is a little different dynamic than comparing parents to kids, or a judicial system to a condemned man. (And our judicial system is a system that serves more to implant a picture in our heads than to do the right thing, so why religious people compare god to a court of law is un known on many playing fields)
I was watching de javu, and it had a line that I’m sure Jesus crusaders would love to throw at me. "Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity"
well I’m a man. We are all human. We have nothing else besides reason. Even when religious people get lost in games of words like belief and faith, or try and tell people that they know what god wants and what his wants for us are, they are still using reason. They are using language dynamics, that’s all we have. We have nothing else. Its how we think.
Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity is an argument, it’s a comparison, and it’s designed to make a point. These are all within the framework of thought, understanding, reason.
There is nothing we can say. As LONG AS WE ARE CONVEYING IDEAS THROUGH SOUND, AND I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE WE COULD POSSIBLY BE DOING OR HOW ELSE WE COULD BE COMMUNICATING, as long as we are doing this. We are using reason.
But to them, its so bad tat suicide is reasonable to them.
What does god have for them after this? Eternal hell? Does this seem right?
Maybe a suicide is just like any old death, and if they "had Jesus" then they will be ok.
Does god control when we die? Is god controlling death when someone commits suicide?
If he isn’t, then how much power do we have?
If we have power, the consequences are obviously not under our control after death. So what kind of power is it?
People liken god to a parent.
Would a parent devise a situation for their children giving them power to ruin themselves forever? What kind of power is that?
Maybe that’s what life is, a big opportunity to succeed or fail at something.
But that’s in the eyes of a human focused on worldly events.
God has eternity in mind
do people realize how crazy this is.
Obviously comparing god to creator is a little different dynamic than comparing parents to kids, or a judicial system to a condemned man. (And our judicial system is a system that serves more to implant a picture in our heads than to do the right thing, so why religious people compare god to a court of law is un known on many playing fields)
I was watching de javu, and it had a line that I’m sure Jesus crusaders would love to throw at me. "Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity"
well I’m a man. We are all human. We have nothing else besides reason. Even when religious people get lost in games of words like belief and faith, or try and tell people that they know what god wants and what his wants for us are, they are still using reason. They are using language dynamics, that’s all we have. We have nothing else. Its how we think.
Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity is an argument, it’s a comparison, and it’s designed to make a point. These are all within the framework of thought, understanding, reason.
There is nothing we can say. As LONG AS WE ARE CONVEYING IDEAS THROUGH SOUND, AND I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE WE COULD POSSIBLY BE DOING OR HOW ELSE WE COULD BE COMMUNICATING, as long as we are doing this. We are using reason.
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
life is a drop in te bucket, so to god, whats the purpose?
it seems simply to weed out those who are with him or against him.
we live on earth
earth and everything it is possible to learn or percieve while on earth is the evidence we are presented with.
at one point in time we have to decide if we beleive in what the followers of christianity and jesus are saying is true.
if we make the right choice before we die, we exist for eternity in (from new international bible, an addtional comment was paraphrased): "the joy of heaven is beyond our understanding or comprehension, but the descriptions in this passage make it clear that it is not something that humans would want to miss" (remember this was paraphrased form a NIV study version, passage explained at the bottom of page)
for each human, life is a drop in the bucket, and its up to a mystery (fate? destiny? god?) who sees and knows what, and makes the right choice.
they say gods enemy is satan. and he is on the prowl.
well he has done a great job.
no telling how much he controls on earth, there is a good bet that he managed to plant dinosaur bones that we would carbon date to being very very old, he also gave the buddists, egyptians and hindus knowledge that allows them to see beyond a world of human perception and human reality, a world that sounds more like what quantom mechanics is talking about. physics must obviously be controlled by the devil too.
so why is god doing this whole experiment
i guess thats one of the mysteries that lets faithful christians keep their sense of "whimsy and wonder"
we live on earth
earth and everything it is possible to learn or percieve while on earth is the evidence we are presented with.
at one point in time we have to decide if we beleive in what the followers of christianity and jesus are saying is true.
if we make the right choice before we die, we exist for eternity in (from new international bible, an addtional comment was paraphrased): "the joy of heaven is beyond our understanding or comprehension, but the descriptions in this passage make it clear that it is not something that humans would want to miss" (remember this was paraphrased form a NIV study version, passage explained at the bottom of page)
for each human, life is a drop in the bucket, and its up to a mystery (fate? destiny? god?) who sees and knows what, and makes the right choice.
they say gods enemy is satan. and he is on the prowl.
well he has done a great job.
no telling how much he controls on earth, there is a good bet that he managed to plant dinosaur bones that we would carbon date to being very very old, he also gave the buddists, egyptians and hindus knowledge that allows them to see beyond a world of human perception and human reality, a world that sounds more like what quantom mechanics is talking about. physics must obviously be controlled by the devil too.
so why is god doing this whole experiment
i guess thats one of the mysteries that lets faithful christians keep their sense of "whimsy and wonder"
to an outside observer
lets say christianity is true
now lets also invent an outside observer.
he sees whats going on.
we are all born
we are all in this together
if i die tomorrow. id go to hell accordig to christians.
lets say tomorrow instead i accept jesus, and live two more years and then die
now i get heaven
multiply this little game by billions
this is what the outside observer sees
its absolutely ridiculous
"better make the right choice before this too late!!!"
we are all in this together that has to be. every man is my brother, but for fate we could be anywhere in this world.
to the outside observer he sees millions dieing
millions going to heaven, millions going to hell
but thats the reality, not random, not ordered, its just happening
lets say this outside observer is a human
does it seem right to him or not?
now lets also invent an outside observer.
he sees whats going on.
we are all born
we are all in this together
if i die tomorrow. id go to hell accordig to christians.
lets say tomorrow instead i accept jesus, and live two more years and then die
now i get heaven
multiply this little game by billions
this is what the outside observer sees
its absolutely ridiculous
"better make the right choice before this too late!!!"
we are all in this together that has to be. every man is my brother, but for fate we could be anywhere in this world.
to the outside observer he sees millions dieing
millions going to heaven, millions going to hell
but thats the reality, not random, not ordered, its just happening
lets say this outside observer is a human
does it seem right to him or not?
thoughts on mind, prayer and faith
To me, there is only one way of "valid proof" of reality of Christianity as one true religion. And that is faith and a personal relationship with Christ. That "tug at the heart" "knocking on the door" that we are supposed to feel "deep down" and make, us say "oh man this is real!!!"
This always bothered me over the years. So here is my take on it, based on what I have Observed and on what I understand about Jungian psychoanalysis!
I have a lot of thoughts on this. Some of the most current:
god is
he is a divine mystery all powerful impossible to comprehend
evil and good are concepts that man created in order to justify things like religion that are used to help us but also to control us
if we didn’t think we were evil we wouldn’t need Jesus
I think that good and evil are things that we normally harbor and at times nurture in our psyche/mind
I think that religion tells us we are wrong, and that it (religion, any religion that works on these presuppositions) is the solution to our wrongness.
That’s not to say that I don’t think religious texts, religious people and leaders are not good guides. But it’s all human, and we all think and perceive a little different.
So what can overcome all that?
Faith, but what is that
well hold on a sec because we are starting to discuss things I m not as sure about yet
------------------------
back to the divine mystery, that’s all good and everything. But where is it? Well it’s in nature and in living things and in the universe and in everything. Its also operates on levels that we associate with ideas like love, spirit, joy, humane, feeling, soul, heart, humanity, spirituality, art, creativity, probably on things we associate with darkness, positive and negative, evil, pain, emotion, and suffering.
I think those things, art, music, humanity and compassion are related to that other, that part of god and eternity and the cosmos, however its all organized
but back to faith, the "only thing that can unite humans who naturally think differently"
well I don’t really buy it
one way of looking at piano playing, is to put your MIND HEART AND SOUL INTO THE PAINO, you do this gradually, its a active AND SUBCONSCIOUS process
soon piano playing starts revealing itself to you in new and weird ways, life revolves around piano playing, piano playing revolves around life. Scale patterns chord progressions and rhythms are seen everywhere. Piano playing explains life, life explains piano playing. Your mind becomes trained.
All kinds of things operate like this
kung fu talks about similar things, kung fu life would transcend piano playing and fighting and piano playing and fighting would reveal itself to you in life, just like fighting theories would, studying animals and nature would in turn reveal more about king fu and piano playing, and about whatever else you are devoted too. But in kung fu they try and see the bigger picture, its not all about fighting, its something bigger, but you can see how fighting relates to all of it. And you can see your place in it, and can see what steps you need to take to progress your relationship to your different devotions
kung fu also talks about no mindedness, this is the similar thing to the "zone" sports players get into, their mind bodies and spirits acting in harmony, subconsciously reacting.
-----------------------------
What happens when we subconsciously react? Or when we get into any "mode of life?" (Like driving a car, or buying gas, or explaining to an ex why you want them back) its almost like a trained personality takes over. Many trained personalities can be working at once. Threes a trained personality for driving a car, interacting with your old lady, interacting with her when she makes you mad. They have presuppositions that subconsciously come into play. When talking with the ex, you may subconsciously take on a gentler tone, that gentler tone, in turn, is another "life mode." the life modes combine to create "complex life mode of talking with ex about why you want her back"
think about what happens, if, that is, if you ever lose control of you "residual self image" your rational, calm, gentle perceived self.
Its almost like another person comes out, an angry person who does dark mean things. At least this is something I noticed. I had trained myself to let angry side get the better of me in certain stressful situations. This is the realest example to me of one of these internal trained PERSONALITIES coming out.
----------------------------------------
Ok so back to faith, and prayer, two of the most freaky deaky things I have thought about.
I think faith MIGHT be some sort of self serving and self fulfilling subconscious trained process.
I mean, a lot of us recognize that we have done messed up things
do we really WANT a just god who is gonna judge according to our worth after we die? Some anti Christians say this is what they want. they say, "Christianity is too easy and selfish all you have to do is accept it fully and you are saved" and so on, I think they might be missing a point too, because then you get into degrees of "personal redemption" (which is what a person would have to do if he thinks god is going to judge based on his personal committed acts of good and evil in life) degrees of personal redemption don’t really work. (Everyone falls short of kingdom of god, everyone sins)
so maybe good and evil is all part of it, and "normal" but obviously we have to strive to take care of ourselves, live with love and responsibility, and KNOW OURSELVES
--------------------------------------
but let me become Christian for a sec
maybe faith and prayer is real, it sure sounds good to someone like me. I know that if god doesn’t like bad acts, vie done some bad acts, so I definitely "need Jesus", if I pray and feel relief in my heart that would strengthen my faith, and make me feel good!
I get into the habits and practices, having all these talks with god and stuff, and it builds upon itself over the years, faith grows, prayer grows, things in life are revealed and amplified and connections and paths are seen. Kind of like the piano playing, a lot like it, just like it if I’m right
I think prayer might just be a motivational self talk/mental organization of life problems that has a deeper impact into our mind and psyche. This is a good or a bad thing. Good if it helps, bad cuz it might be able to cause a pretty good mind-fack (lol).
And because it can become "proof of a real undeniable (because it is intangible) god connection, which in turn proves validity of religion
faith is difficult to comprehend, but it deals with intangible stuff like heart soul and feeling. Often times people will make it clear that god works out of the realm of human logic and reasoning. So they say "you shouldn’t try and reach him using human concepts like logic or reasoning. But then they try and "using logic and reasoning" justify his existence on intangible things such as faith prayer, feeling and heart.
I’m not sure yet.
I’m not saying there isn’t a divine, I just still can’t think or accept that Hindis and Jews, agnostics and Yoruba priests and all these other fellows are going to hell.
And I cant believe that god created us knowing only a select few would get to chill with him.
I’m not saying I think there is no such thing as good or bad acts. But most bad acts are justified in the mind of the one doing it, why? Because of confusion and irresponsibility.
I still think we need to get to know ourselves a bit more, realize our place, realize our relationship to the other, to our mom and dad, our ancestors, and all our village brothers and global brothers and sisters, and see the positives and negatives.
There are more similarities than differences in WORLD religion. Even in the (so called) "far out" Santeria stuff. I mean, some of that sounds a lot like yin and yang!
So does "love your enemy"
humanity has a dale nature. Christianity can use Jesus to help overcome dual nature and strive for good.
I probably left out some stuff. These are some of my thoughts at the time.
By the way
lets say ALL religion is totally man made. Has god influenced it, I’m sure he/she it has. I don’t think he just operates on a human or natural plane though. He operates on a lot of stuff and a lot of planes probably
I think a key for all of us is to try and live actively and consciously and try and see the paths that life is showing us.
I really don’t have much of a problem with (the idea of) Jesus; I think he had a beautiful world view.
Unless he’s the personification of the Old Testament Yahweh which is again very freaky deaky.
This always bothered me over the years. So here is my take on it, based on what I have Observed and on what I understand about Jungian psychoanalysis!
I have a lot of thoughts on this. Some of the most current:
god is
he is a divine mystery all powerful impossible to comprehend
evil and good are concepts that man created in order to justify things like religion that are used to help us but also to control us
if we didn’t think we were evil we wouldn’t need Jesus
I think that good and evil are things that we normally harbor and at times nurture in our psyche/mind
I think that religion tells us we are wrong, and that it (religion, any religion that works on these presuppositions) is the solution to our wrongness.
That’s not to say that I don’t think religious texts, religious people and leaders are not good guides. But it’s all human, and we all think and perceive a little different.
So what can overcome all that?
Faith, but what is that
well hold on a sec because we are starting to discuss things I m not as sure about yet
------------------------
back to the divine mystery, that’s all good and everything. But where is it? Well it’s in nature and in living things and in the universe and in everything. Its also operates on levels that we associate with ideas like love, spirit, joy, humane, feeling, soul, heart, humanity, spirituality, art, creativity, probably on things we associate with darkness, positive and negative, evil, pain, emotion, and suffering.
I think those things, art, music, humanity and compassion are related to that other, that part of god and eternity and the cosmos, however its all organized
but back to faith, the "only thing that can unite humans who naturally think differently"
well I don’t really buy it
one way of looking at piano playing, is to put your MIND HEART AND SOUL INTO THE PAINO, you do this gradually, its a active AND SUBCONSCIOUS process
soon piano playing starts revealing itself to you in new and weird ways, life revolves around piano playing, piano playing revolves around life. Scale patterns chord progressions and rhythms are seen everywhere. Piano playing explains life, life explains piano playing. Your mind becomes trained.
All kinds of things operate like this
kung fu talks about similar things, kung fu life would transcend piano playing and fighting and piano playing and fighting would reveal itself to you in life, just like fighting theories would, studying animals and nature would in turn reveal more about king fu and piano playing, and about whatever else you are devoted too. But in kung fu they try and see the bigger picture, its not all about fighting, its something bigger, but you can see how fighting relates to all of it. And you can see your place in it, and can see what steps you need to take to progress your relationship to your different devotions
kung fu also talks about no mindedness, this is the similar thing to the "zone" sports players get into, their mind bodies and spirits acting in harmony, subconsciously reacting.
-----------------------------
What happens when we subconsciously react? Or when we get into any "mode of life?" (Like driving a car, or buying gas, or explaining to an ex why you want them back) its almost like a trained personality takes over. Many trained personalities can be working at once. Threes a trained personality for driving a car, interacting with your old lady, interacting with her when she makes you mad. They have presuppositions that subconsciously come into play. When talking with the ex, you may subconsciously take on a gentler tone, that gentler tone, in turn, is another "life mode." the life modes combine to create "complex life mode of talking with ex about why you want her back"
think about what happens, if, that is, if you ever lose control of you "residual self image" your rational, calm, gentle perceived self.
Its almost like another person comes out, an angry person who does dark mean things. At least this is something I noticed. I had trained myself to let angry side get the better of me in certain stressful situations. This is the realest example to me of one of these internal trained PERSONALITIES coming out.
----------------------------------------
Ok so back to faith, and prayer, two of the most freaky deaky things I have thought about.
I think faith MIGHT be some sort of self serving and self fulfilling subconscious trained process.
I mean, a lot of us recognize that we have done messed up things
do we really WANT a just god who is gonna judge according to our worth after we die? Some anti Christians say this is what they want. they say, "Christianity is too easy and selfish all you have to do is accept it fully and you are saved" and so on, I think they might be missing a point too, because then you get into degrees of "personal redemption" (which is what a person would have to do if he thinks god is going to judge based on his personal committed acts of good and evil in life) degrees of personal redemption don’t really work. (Everyone falls short of kingdom of god, everyone sins)
so maybe good and evil is all part of it, and "normal" but obviously we have to strive to take care of ourselves, live with love and responsibility, and KNOW OURSELVES
--------------------------------------
but let me become Christian for a sec
maybe faith and prayer is real, it sure sounds good to someone like me. I know that if god doesn’t like bad acts, vie done some bad acts, so I definitely "need Jesus", if I pray and feel relief in my heart that would strengthen my faith, and make me feel good!
I get into the habits and practices, having all these talks with god and stuff, and it builds upon itself over the years, faith grows, prayer grows, things in life are revealed and amplified and connections and paths are seen. Kind of like the piano playing, a lot like it, just like it if I’m right
I think prayer might just be a motivational self talk/mental organization of life problems that has a deeper impact into our mind and psyche. This is a good or a bad thing. Good if it helps, bad cuz it might be able to cause a pretty good mind-fack (lol).
And because it can become "proof of a real undeniable (because it is intangible) god connection, which in turn proves validity of religion
faith is difficult to comprehend, but it deals with intangible stuff like heart soul and feeling. Often times people will make it clear that god works out of the realm of human logic and reasoning. So they say "you shouldn’t try and reach him using human concepts like logic or reasoning. But then they try and "using logic and reasoning" justify his existence on intangible things such as faith prayer, feeling and heart.
I’m not sure yet.
I’m not saying there isn’t a divine, I just still can’t think or accept that Hindis and Jews, agnostics and Yoruba priests and all these other fellows are going to hell.
And I cant believe that god created us knowing only a select few would get to chill with him.
I’m not saying I think there is no such thing as good or bad acts. But most bad acts are justified in the mind of the one doing it, why? Because of confusion and irresponsibility.
I still think we need to get to know ourselves a bit more, realize our place, realize our relationship to the other, to our mom and dad, our ancestors, and all our village brothers and global brothers and sisters, and see the positives and negatives.
There are more similarities than differences in WORLD religion. Even in the (so called) "far out" Santeria stuff. I mean, some of that sounds a lot like yin and yang!
So does "love your enemy"
humanity has a dale nature. Christianity can use Jesus to help overcome dual nature and strive for good.
I probably left out some stuff. These are some of my thoughts at the time.
By the way
lets say ALL religion is totally man made. Has god influenced it, I’m sure he/she it has. I don’t think he just operates on a human or natural plane though. He operates on a lot of stuff and a lot of planes probably
I think a key for all of us is to try and live actively and consciously and try and see the paths that life is showing us.
I really don’t have much of a problem with (the idea of) Jesus; I think he had a beautiful world view.
Unless he’s the personification of the Old Testament Yahweh which is again very freaky deaky.
the heart? and more
so does god only speak to our heart?
is this how we know the bible is right?
the holy spirit has to move someone to beleive right?
and that happens in the heart. (reed my feeling good = feeling ones divine inner nature? ... to learn how to catch the holy spirit while thiking about whatever you want!)
so all this debating is pointless
because if the bible is right
than all our constructs are creations of corruption and of evil (going against what god wants)
there is another slightly unrelated point to be made wen looking at the development of human language and society, and how perfectly the things that god wants coincide with the ideas of what our society wants. amazing how other societies with differnt non abrahamic gods view creation through a lense that makes sese according to their society.
what does god want us to do with these facts when our mind processes them?
is this how we know the bible is right?
the holy spirit has to move someone to beleive right?
and that happens in the heart. (reed my feeling good = feeling ones divine inner nature? ... to learn how to catch the holy spirit while thiking about whatever you want!)
so all this debating is pointless
because if the bible is right
than all our constructs are creations of corruption and of evil (going against what god wants)
there is another slightly unrelated point to be made wen looking at the development of human language and society, and how perfectly the things that god wants coincide with the ideas of what our society wants. amazing how other societies with differnt non abrahamic gods view creation through a lense that makes sese according to their society.
what does god want us to do with these facts when our mind processes them?
society is very complicated
life itself is bizarre
why do we see, hear, look
how is their a thought?
how do we know the world is not just our experience
we might be the only ones. what i mean is. this dimension may be one in billions.
why is it like this. and how do you know you are talking to anyone else?
what is an anyone else, but a label, you some how understand that you project onto a pattern you somehow recognize in your experience of "life"
it might be just me. no one else!
how do we know that you or I exist?
why are we even able to think about ideas like existence?
it seems we are highly complex animals with a oncious.
we manipulate mental energies
stuff makes us feel good and bad.
not sure why
why humor? becuase people live longer when they laugh? andfind things funny?
cant we eliminate the ability to make someone laugh and the ability to detect humor and feel good about it?
wouldnt we break even?
what procreation benefit is there from a sense of humor?
it seems animlals joke around sometimes too.
i wonder why
I had all this figured out a while ago.
ok
so one thing i am fairly certain i can state that holds true for most of our mental energies.
we do not like to worry and it is not good for our brains
isnt the christian world view creating too much worry?
life itself is bizarre
why do we see, hear, look
how is their a thought?
how do we know the world is not just our experience
we might be the only ones. what i mean is. this dimension may be one in billions.
why is it like this. and how do you know you are talking to anyone else?
what is an anyone else, but a label, you some how understand that you project onto a pattern you somehow recognize in your experience of "life"
it might be just me. no one else!
how do we know that you or I exist?
why are we even able to think about ideas like existence?
it seems we are highly complex animals with a oncious.
we manipulate mental energies
stuff makes us feel good and bad.
not sure why
why humor? becuase people live longer when they laugh? andfind things funny?
cant we eliminate the ability to make someone laugh and the ability to detect humor and feel good about it?
wouldnt we break even?
what procreation benefit is there from a sense of humor?
it seems animlals joke around sometimes too.
i wonder why
I had all this figured out a while ago.
ok
so one thing i am fairly certain i can state that holds true for most of our mental energies.
we do not like to worry and it is not good for our brains
isnt the christian world view creating too much worry?
and if chrisitans are right. where does a sense of humor come from? there are a lot of things in the chrisitan world view that jut arent funny. tey are actually devoid of humor! check out http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm for starters!
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