jesus is a terrorist and a passive aggressive evil thing

christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



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talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive

saving my parents by all means necessary

I feel overwhelmed by jesus sometimes. I have trouble knowing what the feeling is. Sometimes love, it reminds me of what it feels like to have my mother give me advice... sometimes a tremble deep in the heart. Sometimes fear and dread. Many times its worry.

Im not always sure if the feeling is comming from jesus. For example sometimes I say the word jesus and I feel sick. BUt sometimes I feel the want to talk to god and if I make that my intention then the feeling is better. I have a feeling I consider the "Being honest with myself feeling" (or intention)

In order to be honestwith myself I have to accept jesus

I also hear voices. So the voices help me interpret the feelings.

I’m not really sure what’s going on with the voices I hear. I think I have thought complexes inside of me that believe in Christianity and are trying to warn me or save me. Or maybe my mind is trying to save itself or me. Maybe these are the strongest imprints all my exposure to christianity has made on my mind. maybe these are the kind of demons a free thinker gets.

Negative voices (are sad and dark and many times downright mean or angry):

Yes, there’s fire underneath. Its that bad, its that bad.

You know the truth, Only Jesus can save you. There’s nothing you can do. Nothing. You deserve it.

Why are you denying god. He’s trying to help you. You know its true. Nothing can save you.

Your parents are heading for hell. You are damned and you know it. We are trying to help you.

Eternal darkness. Fire! Fire! Torment. Etenral torment. You are EVIL. All are evil.

In the end, you will burn.

The fire wont be put out. Good luck in hell.

You can feel jesus. You know hes real. Theres nothing you can do. you caught the spirit. you will burn, foreal.



Positive voices (Assuming I have nothing to fear from any gods or devils)… these voices are friendlier and urgent:

This cant be right. Keep the faith. THINK! Keep going. Keep pushing.

Help the world, see through it. You are ok, it’s a lie. See through it, I can help you, keep thinking. You’re fine. The world needs help. Your out of your mind. Your out of it.

You committed no blasphemy, you just questioned.

trust us

theres no burning, thats evil. cant you see? thats evil. "truth"

is jesus real? its all bull****, dont you see. there are famines in the world right now. think of what we could do. snap out of it. you dont need them. escape.

dont trust your heart, you are brainwashed. its obvious




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So its hard for me to interpret my feelings. Many times I think my feelings are being falsely represented.

Most of the time I am sad and lonely, ashamed or terrified I feel really really really weird about god.

Im not really motivated to succeed in life, Im kind of pathetic and helpless in that regard. I always have been but Ill get to that in another post. ITs important if you are a psychologist to know the backstory, and I kind of get a picture of whats going on from a psychological standpoint.... They say Im supposed to focus on life and growing up since I was always a failure (or more importantly I viewed myself as a failure and constantly reinforced the self view by taking easy ways out or making terrible mistakes) and with enough radical changes maybe things can be reversed...

biologically/psychologically... why are there people like me? well Im a weak specimen that hasnt adapted right to my society. Instead of being defective in aphysical trait (humans, unlike animals really on their minds most of all) my defections are all in my head. The mind is the trait that adapts to the environment (society) and I have been maladapted so long that I think its a self feeding process of negativity and failure. In ghana I would be shunned by everyone as a failure and thus I would be cursed. In japan I would be so overwhelmed by self loathing and dishonor that I killed myself. In haiti I would be turned into a "zombie" and sold into slavery by an underground policing agency. In some places I would already be dead.. ANd in many places I would be crazy, in jail, on the streets, or a suicide.

sure i can think, but I havnt learned the right lessons to adapt to society and success in it. SO Im going against the biological drive to simply live.... Sometimes animals just give up and die. Many societies are compassionate and try to do somethign for the failures or defuncts, ti goes against nature. ITs why conservatives are so mad at taxes or homeless people. I mean the one thing we HAVE to do by deAULT in this weird world is LIVE. And societies in many cases need members to be self suffiecient, which I am not!


but thats another story

But religion issues are to worrysome for me (I used to worry about such pointless crap lol... but what is it now? haha) And the voices make it hard to concentrate on anything and even if I didnt hear voices I cant keep from thinking and questioning. Il lprobably end up in a looney bin or homeless, Im too afraid of hell to kill myself.

I hear voices telling me Im denying the holy spirit, and that there is a feeling from god telling me its him and that I know the truth. Every time I read about science or about mental disorders or about the weird faulty history of the world (And I know most people dont have a clue about this but if you try and research the way the bible links up with scholarly work and the movement and development and history of the different jews, cananites, hitites and egyptians and other bible people you might think a little) every time (Well many times) that I reason about the absurdity of belief or about the weridness of the immense fear that ideas like god have the potential to create I will hear vocies telling me "is it worth it?" or "you will see what you get"

right now I should be studying for college but the voices distract me from reading, and If I focus enough a thought about god will distract me. Or I might think that god is talking to me in my heart. (this is what just happened I asked jesus to come into my heart and I told him I didnt want to deny him) I had gotten off the phone with my mom and I felt loved and then I started thinking to myself if that was the feeling I associated with getting from god (and Im never sure when the feeling from god is legitamite or not, well actually I am, the voices inform me that I KNOW when the feeling is from god, and that Im denying him and lying to myself and that I nkow that jesus is real, and in the course of self examination I have realized that I do know when its from god) Right now Im trying to get god into my heart so Ican examine the feeling but the feeling wont come, I feel like Im in trouble and a voice is telling me "dont test god"

Basicially something out there doesnt want me to even be writing this. The vocie tells me that the devil has me and that I know Im evil, Im truly evil and I need to save my parents.

the voice tells me "you have no future without jesus"

Right now Im trying to pray to get the feeling but Im not sure when its an honest prayer. I have to make myself know that "something" (I havnt figured out exactly what it is)

I think I have to "know" that jesus is my savior in a certain way that god likes and when I do that he gives me a feeling that I am ok. If you read my other posts you know that I think the idea of knowing and believing is really funny. (me typing this just caused a positive feeling in my heart)

I think biologically my emotions might be screwed. (a voice just told me to pray)

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A lot of the voices center around me "knowing the truth" or me "knowing something about something involving the way god works"


Its time I tell you about my confirmation statement. Ill post the whole thing up sometimes, I made it in eighth grade after going through the confirmation statemnt. Sometimes reading statements like these makes me feel good, but many times the voices tell me Im just reading them to test god and I dont really believe.

statements:

I beleive in god and I believe jesus is his only son and I know he is real and that I can always ask him for anytihng and he will always answer me.

I beleive Jesus died for me. well here is my confirmation statment. IT contains all the points I was encouraged to include as well as the reason for it (the part I had to think about on my own)

a voice just told me "its not worth it, you know... you are gonna BURN for this"

satan just told me to keep up the good work I should add halfway through writing this next bit...

I believe that there is a God and I believe in Him. I know He exists and have faith in Him because of the great world I live in. I think of the awesomeness and complexity of the universe and all of the things on earth. Its hard to explain it with words but he was the creator because of the warmth of the sun and the huge ocean and the millions of species of plants and animals. I see gods work especially when I sit and watch the world and hear the birds in the trees and the rolling of ocean waves.And also because of the feelings of love, family friends, and dreams.

I believe that Jesus Christ, God's only son, is my lord and savior and that he and God love me. I believe Jesus died for me and in all the miracles that happened when he was on earth including his resurrection. And even though all these things are hard to imagine, I think of the fact that this planet has life on it out of all the trillions of planets, I think thats a miracle. O ther everyday miracles are when people have a terminal illness and they recover. SO I believe all the miracles in the bible.

And I know jesus loves me and I can always ask his forgiveness and he will give it. And I believe in eternal life after death if I live as a christian.

I want to lead a Christian life and attend worship and learn to better understand and interpret the bible and I want to show God's love and try never to hate and go on missions. And I will give my time to be part of the Presbyterian Church and take part in it. And I will have a relationship with god and Jesus now and in the eternal Life after Death.


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there are also church hymns that I sang.

two of the most powerful was one that was about moses or any old christian being called by god to fix people. and one about knowing the truth


the first one I cant remember correctly but It had a beautiful power and melody.I the lord of sea and rain, I have heard my peoples pain da da daa da daa da daa, who shall I send?

here I am lord, if you need me. I have heard you calling in the night. I will go lord, If you lead me. I will lead your people to (the light? Im not sure)

I will fix their hearts of stone, give them hearts of love alone who will something sometihng.... who shall I send (and then the above chorus again)

I think the song is called here I am lord. everyone loved that one. Im actually happy after writing those lyrics. ( a few voices are whispering "hes called." "hes called!")

another one that I am reminded of since a internal voice keeps on telling me YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!is this one.

and it goes!

you shall know the truth
you shall know the truth
jesus is the truth and the truth shall set you free
jesus is the truth
you shall know the truth
jesus is the truth and the truth shall set you free!

cant remember the rest of the words.

(voices saying hey hey! hes real! you can save them!)

I feel really good and normal right now, wait the feeling just went away.



what prompted me to write all of this is that I have a terrible life! hey! the world is insane! there is some incredibly terrible crazy terrible shit that happens in it and right now I feel great! Im not sure if its because I feel like praising god or if I jsut proved how I was brainwashed to somethign deep down in my feeling center. Maybe I was just nostalgic about church.

But anyway now the voice is saying "hes a psycho, this is a psychological nightmare!"

now I will go into what really prompted me to write this.

I felt I could maybe save my parents if I got a gun and put it to their heads and made them pray until I was certain they really felt saved, but they would probably be lying to me.

oh man! a voice just remided me of another song. the voice said tell all the world

there was a song that went

"tell all the world" that was a big part of the song.

tell all the world (sing we noel) tell all the world (noel noel)
tell all the world that sometihng something something

oh man that song was amazing. if you have not heard it you need to.

I feel positively wonderful right now!

we had some bad ass christmas programs back in the day.

now that I think about it the best thing for me might be to go back to church and sing in choir. I wish I wouldnt feel so evil when I listen to vodou music.

a discussion with my parents

This is something I feel I should write. I walked into the kitchen of my parents house and felt scared that my mom, dad and I are gonna end up in hell. I wasn’t sure why I felt this way. I mean that on one hand I’m not sure why I felt they would end up in hell. I’m not sure why I'm debating that a place called hell exists or why people should have to wonder if they will end up there. I’m also not sure why I was scared if that might be the case. Both scared that I might go there, and worried that my parents might.

My dad I think is an atheist, or at least his position is that no one has any reason to assume any belief without proof is valid. My mother says she doesn’t doubt that Jesus may have felt he died for our sins, and she thinks he was like any great prophet who wanted to help us live consciously and lovingly. I asked her if she felt like she knew that Jesus was really her savior or if she felt she might be denying god. She said she had no way of knowing those things without taking a leap of faith and she said she couldn’t discount other religions because she thought there wasn’t only one right way. I asked her why and she said because there are other religions and we can’t discredit the rest of the world because of the politically imposed of the Christian religion. I asked her if she ever tried to test Jesus to see if he was real. She said she might have when she was younger and surrounded by the religion, but not anymore. She wont try now (As I write) she wasn’t taught to test Jesus when she was younger. (50s and early 60s small town Wisconsin) she said either you have faith or you don’t. I Said there has to be a reason people believe something. She said every culture has faith in something, and people have had faiths before Jesus. She said people with blind faith end up trying to discredit evolution and other things and that what I am doing with her is pointless.

I said I was asking her to be honest with her feelings and she said she strives to be honest and that it doesn’t feel to be dishonest and that it isn’t helpful in relationships. So I asked her again if she ever asked Jesus if he was real and if he could come into her heart. The extent of her praying, she said, had to do with asking that if god knows what’s going on, please help me to direct my family in the best way possible so each of them can be decent people. She also asked god to please help her son find himself so he can be happy in life. I asked her whom she thought she was talking to when she prayed to god and she said I don’t know. She then said that prayer works as a sort meditation for some people and thinking about things quietly helps them figure things out.

She says she thinks I am stuck on worrying about one right way or else hell, and that I cant think past that. And that for many of her Christian friends, prayer helps them think more lucidly or rationally about their problems.

She asked me if she was making sense to me or if I was going to discredit it because it didn’t fit in with the way I was thinking about things at the moment (I’m terrified of hell we will try and see why later). I told her I sometimes felt that Jesus was real. In a spiritual way. I say that this means I have to see what I think about the bible, since you learn about Jesus through the bible.


I asked her to sometimes ask Jesus if he was calling her. But she said she wasn’t really looking for it and had a lot of things going on in her life. She says that doing tai chi and learning about Taoism is very appealing to her and also tolerant of other cultures. She thinks other spiritualities will answer more of her questions for her. I asked her to still try sometimes but she said she would never have done something like that. And that she would have to be more open to that thought process in order to do something like that.




Sometimes the minister of her father’s church says open your hearts, let him in during service. And she says that in this setting (she visits her father a few times a year) she feels to think about the things in life most important to her like her family. I asked her if she ever felt like Jesus was coming into her heart. She said that was too mysterious of a question for her. She said one can have a good feeling by thinking about problems in life and thinking clearly about them and making positive steps towards fixing problems and that is what she thinks about when she prays, and that some people attribute this feeling of clarity to god.



I asked her if she ever thought she was feeling gods love in her heart. She said maybe when little because then she was told to label the thought as god, but she has learned to think for herself and realize that these feelings might come from a combination of things. I asked her if she felt deep down that she knew that the feeling was from Jesus. She said no. I asked her if she was sure, she said yes. Asked her if she was positive, she said I was pushing it and that she was trying to be reasonable with me.

some ancient egyption thought

the egyptians realized the limiting nature of language and reasonable thought.



anyway an example of the egyptian thought is this. insppired by reading the metu neter...

think about medicine and poison.

westerners define medicine as something that harms man and poison as something that hurts him.

but in reality a thing classified as amedicine is just a thing. if the thing interacts with another thing, it interacts. in the right interaction it could be harmful to something else, and then in that interaction, to that something else, the thing would be a poison.

but in a different interaction, the thing could be a medicine. for example snake venom in the right does can fix problems.

in the end is snake venom fixing problems or causing them.

even if it kills someone, this is only causing aproblem if we say that we dont want the human to die.

if it cures them of something, this is only helping if we say that we wanted to improve the persons state of being. in the end all that happened was an interaction

can we limit an interaction to a cure or a ailment?

some medicines are defined as fixing a certain disorder. but then the doctor wil lsay that the medicine has side effects.

in reality a certain dosage, combined with a human with some biological presets, causes a set of interactions. depending on definitions these interactions become cures, problems, annoyances.

but there is not really a such thing as a side affect.

and this way of thinking about languge can be expanded in ways that can drive me nuts.

suicide??

There are people right now that feel so bad or depressed or hopeless that they want to kill themselves. Maybe they can be talked out of it. Maybe their life could be improved.

But to them, its so bad tat suicide is reasonable to them.



What does god have for them after this? Eternal hell? Does this seem right?

Maybe a suicide is just like any old death, and if they "had Jesus" then they will be ok.


Does god control when we die? Is god controlling death when someone commits suicide?

If he isn’t, then how much power do we have?

If we have power, the consequences are obviously not under our control after death. So what kind of power is it?

People liken god to a parent.

Would a parent devise a situation for their children giving them power to ruin themselves forever? What kind of power is that?

Maybe that’s what life is, a big opportunity to succeed or fail at something.

But that’s in the eyes of a human focused on worldly events.

God has eternity in mind

do people realize how crazy this is.

Obviously comparing god to creator is a little different dynamic than comparing parents to kids, or a judicial system to a condemned man. (And our judicial system is a system that serves more to implant a picture in our heads than to do the right thing, so why religious people compare god to a court of law is un known on many playing fields)




I was watching de javu, and it had a line that I’m sure Jesus crusaders would love to throw at me. "Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity"

well I’m a man. We are all human. We have nothing else besides reason. Even when religious people get lost in games of words like belief and faith, or try and tell people that they know what god wants and what his wants for us are, they are still using reason. They are using language dynamics, that’s all we have. We have nothing else. Its how we think.

Satan reasons like a man, god thinks of eternity is an argument, it’s a comparison, and it’s designed to make a point. These are all within the framework of thought, understanding, reason.

There is nothing we can say. As LONG AS WE ARE CONVEYING IDEAS THROUGH SOUND, AND I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE WE COULD POSSIBLY BE DOING OR HOW ELSE WE COULD BE COMMUNICATING, as long as we are doing this. We are using reason.

life is a drop in te bucket, so to god, whats the purpose?

it seems simply to weed out those who are with him or against him.

we live on earth

earth and everything it is possible to learn or percieve while on earth is the evidence we are presented with.

at one point in time we have to decide if we beleive in what the followers of christianity and jesus are saying is true.

if we make the right choice before we die, we exist for eternity in (from new international bible, an addtional comment was paraphrased): "the joy of heaven is beyond our understanding or comprehension, but the descriptions in this passage make it clear that it is not something that humans would want to miss" (remember this was paraphrased form a NIV study version, passage explained at the bottom of page)


for each human, life is a drop in the bucket, and its up to a mystery (fate? destiny? god?) who sees and knows what, and makes the right choice.

they say gods enemy is satan. and he is on the prowl.

well he has done a great job.

no telling how much he controls on earth, there is a good bet that he managed to plant dinosaur bones that we would carbon date to being very very old, he also gave the buddists, egyptians and hindus knowledge that allows them to see beyond a world of human perception and human reality, a world that sounds more like what quantom mechanics is talking about. physics must obviously be controlled by the devil too.

so why is god doing this whole experiment

i guess thats one of the mysteries that lets faithful christians keep their sense of "whimsy and wonder"

to an outside observer

lets say christianity is true

now lets also invent an outside observer.

he sees whats going on.


we are all born

we are all in this together


if i die tomorrow. id go to hell accordig to christians.

lets say tomorrow instead i accept jesus, and live two more years and then die

now i get heaven



multiply this little game by billions

this is what the outside observer sees

its absolutely ridiculous

"better make the right choice before this too late!!!"

we are all in this together that has to be. every man is my brother, but for fate we could be anywhere in this world.

to the outside observer he sees millions dieing

millions going to heaven, millions going to hell

but thats the reality, not random, not ordered, its just happening


lets say this outside observer is a human

does it seem right to him or not?

thoughts on mind, prayer and faith

To me, there is only one way of "valid proof" of reality of Christianity as one true religion. And that is faith and a personal relationship with Christ. That "tug at the heart" "knocking on the door" that we are supposed to feel "deep down" and make, us say "oh man this is real!!!"

This always bothered me over the years. So here is my take on it, based on what I have Observed and on what I understand about Jungian psychoanalysis!





I have a lot of thoughts on this. Some of the most current:


god is


he is a divine mystery all powerful impossible to comprehend


evil and good are concepts that man created in order to justify things like religion that are used to help us but also to control us

if we didn’t think we were evil we wouldn’t need Jesus

I think that good and evil are things that we normally harbor and at times nurture in our psyche/mind

I think that religion tells us we are wrong, and that it (religion, any religion that works on these presuppositions) is the solution to our wrongness.

That’s not to say that I don’t think religious texts, religious people and leaders are not good guides. But it’s all human, and we all think and perceive a little different.

So what can overcome all that?

Faith, but what is that


well hold on a sec because we are starting to discuss things I m not as sure about yet


------------------------

back to the divine mystery, that’s all good and everything. But where is it? Well it’s in nature and in living things and in the universe and in everything. Its also operates on levels that we associate with ideas like love, spirit, joy, humane, feeling, soul, heart, humanity, spirituality, art, creativity, probably on things we associate with darkness, positive and negative, evil, pain, emotion, and suffering.

I think those things, art, music, humanity and compassion are related to that other, that part of god and eternity and the cosmos, however its all organized

but back to faith, the "only thing that can unite humans who naturally think differently"

well I don’t really buy it

one way of looking at piano playing, is to put your MIND HEART AND SOUL INTO THE PAINO, you do this gradually, its a active AND SUBCONSCIOUS process

soon piano playing starts revealing itself to you in new and weird ways, life revolves around piano playing, piano playing revolves around life. Scale patterns chord progressions and rhythms are seen everywhere. Piano playing explains life, life explains piano playing. Your mind becomes trained.

All kinds of things operate like this

kung fu talks about similar things, kung fu life would transcend piano playing and fighting and piano playing and fighting would reveal itself to you in life, just like fighting theories would, studying animals and nature would in turn reveal more about king fu and piano playing, and about whatever else you are devoted too. But in kung fu they try and see the bigger picture, its not all about fighting, its something bigger, but you can see how fighting relates to all of it. And you can see your place in it, and can see what steps you need to take to progress your relationship to your different devotions

kung fu also talks about no mindedness, this is the similar thing to the "zone" sports players get into, their mind bodies and spirits acting in harmony, subconsciously reacting.


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What happens when we subconsciously react? Or when we get into any "mode of life?" (Like driving a car, or buying gas, or explaining to an ex why you want them back) its almost like a trained personality takes over. Many trained personalities can be working at once. Threes a trained personality for driving a car, interacting with your old lady, interacting with her when she makes you mad. They have presuppositions that subconsciously come into play. When talking with the ex, you may subconsciously take on a gentler tone, that gentler tone, in turn, is another "life mode." the life modes combine to create "complex life mode of talking with ex about why you want her back"

think about what happens, if, that is, if you ever lose control of you "residual self image" your rational, calm, gentle perceived self.

Its almost like another person comes out, an angry person who does dark mean things. At least this is something I noticed. I had trained myself to let angry side get the better of me in certain stressful situations. This is the realest example to me of one of these internal trained PERSONALITIES coming out.

----------------------------------------

Ok so back to faith, and prayer, two of the most freaky deaky things I have thought about.

I think faith MIGHT be some sort of self serving and self fulfilling subconscious trained process.

I mean, a lot of us recognize that we have done messed up things

do we really WANT a just god who is gonna judge according to our worth after we die? Some anti Christians say this is what they want. they say, "Christianity is too easy and selfish all you have to do is accept it fully and you are saved" and so on, I think they might be missing a point too, because then you get into degrees of "personal redemption" (which is what a person would have to do if he thinks god is going to judge based on his personal committed acts of good and evil in life) degrees of personal redemption don’t really work. (Everyone falls short of kingdom of god, everyone sins)

so maybe good and evil is all part of it, and "normal" but obviously we have to strive to take care of ourselves, live with love and responsibility, and KNOW OURSELVES


--------------------------------------

but let me become Christian for a sec

maybe faith and prayer is real, it sure sounds good to someone like me. I know that if god doesn’t like bad acts, vie done some bad acts, so I definitely "need Jesus", if I pray and feel relief in my heart that would strengthen my faith, and make me feel good!

I get into the habits and practices, having all these talks with god and stuff, and it builds upon itself over the years, faith grows, prayer grows, things in life are revealed and amplified and connections and paths are seen. Kind of like the piano playing, a lot like it, just like it if I’m right

I think prayer might just be a motivational self talk/mental organization of life problems that has a deeper impact into our mind and psyche. This is a good or a bad thing. Good if it helps, bad cuz it might be able to cause a pretty good mind-fack (lol).

And because it can become "proof of a real undeniable (because it is intangible) god connection, which in turn proves validity of religion

faith is difficult to comprehend, but it deals with intangible stuff like heart soul and feeling. Often times people will make it clear that god works out of the realm of human logic and reasoning. So they say "you shouldn’t try and reach him using human concepts like logic or reasoning. But then they try and "using logic and reasoning" justify his existence on intangible things such as faith prayer, feeling and heart.

I’m not sure yet.

I’m not saying there isn’t a divine, I just still can’t think or accept that Hindis and Jews, agnostics and Yoruba priests and all these other fellows are going to hell.

And I cant believe that god created us knowing only a select few would get to chill with him.

I’m not saying I think there is no such thing as good or bad acts. But most bad acts are justified in the mind of the one doing it, why? Because of confusion and irresponsibility.

I still think we need to get to know ourselves a bit more, realize our place, realize our relationship to the other, to our mom and dad, our ancestors, and all our village brothers and global brothers and sisters, and see the positives and negatives.

There are more similarities than differences in WORLD religion. Even in the (so called) "far out" Santeria stuff. I mean, some of that sounds a lot like yin and yang!


So does "love your enemy"

humanity has a dale nature. Christianity can use Jesus to help overcome dual nature and strive for good.

I probably left out some stuff. These are some of my thoughts at the time.

By the way

lets say ALL religion is totally man made. Has god influenced it, I’m sure he/she it has. I don’t think he just operates on a human or natural plane though. He operates on a lot of stuff and a lot of planes probably

I think a key for all of us is to try and live actively and consciously and try and see the paths that life is showing us.

I really don’t have much of a problem with (the idea of) Jesus; I think he had a beautiful world view.

Unless he’s the personification of the Old Testament Yahweh which is again very freaky deaky.

the heart? and more

so does god only speak to our heart?

is this how we know the bible is right?

the holy spirit has to move someone to beleive right?

and that happens in the heart. (reed my feeling good = feeling ones divine inner nature? ... to learn how to catch the holy spirit while thiking about whatever you want!)

so all this debating is pointless

because if the bible is right

than all our constructs are creations of corruption and of evil (going against what god wants)



there is another slightly unrelated point to be made wen looking at the development of human language and society, and how perfectly the things that god wants coincide with the ideas of what our society wants. amazing how other societies with differnt non abrahamic gods view creation through a lense that makes sese according to their society.

what does god want us to do with these facts when our mind processes them?

society is very complicated


life itself is bizarre

why do we see, hear, look

how is their a thought?

how do we know the world is not just our experience

we might be the only ones. what i mean is. this dimension may be one in billions.

why is it like this. and how do you know you are talking to anyone else?

what is an anyone else, but a label, you some how understand that you project onto a pattern you somehow recognize in your experience of "life"

it might be just me. no one else!

how do we know that you or I exist?

why are we even able to think about ideas like existence?


it seems we are highly complex animals with a oncious.

we manipulate mental energies

stuff makes us feel good and bad.

not sure why


why humor? becuase people live longer when they laugh? andfind things funny?

cant we eliminate the ability to make someone laugh and the ability to detect humor and feel good about it?

wouldnt we break even?


what procreation benefit is there from a sense of humor?

it seems animlals joke around sometimes too.

i wonder why



I had all this figured out a while ago.


ok

so one thing i am fairly certain i can state that holds true for most of our mental energies.

we do not like to worry and it is not good for our brains

isnt the christian world view creating too much worry?

and if chrisitans are right. where does a sense of humor come from? there are a lot of things in the chrisitan world view that jut arent funny. tey are actually devoid of humor! check out http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm for starters!

how to witness to someone about the lord

christian brainwashing in action

witness scenario:

(keep in mind, the person being witessed to PROBABLY DOES WANT TO KNOW ")WHATEVER GOD IS"

witness: do you know that right now the hol spirit of jesus is trying to get you to turn towards him? all he wants to do is love you



this sets up in the mind of the person being witnessed to. "god doesnt know me" (perhapse the person has heard before that unbeleif leads to hell, perhapse not, either way they wonder I dont think I know god right now, do I)


next idea that the person being witnessed to is thinking "he is pulling at my heart right now, at this instant, and all he wants to do is love me, hey that soiunds like honest love! and it seems realistic, i mean god must always be with us right?"


a feeling of calm, joy or content comes into person


"woah" that must have been the holy psirit! wow, maybe its real!


this will forever send them questioning form that point in. "when that guy witnessed to me, did I expereince jesus's love?"


the more they learn about the bible, the more they learn about the consequences of not following the lords call.

and this can hook them right into the whole christian organism.

more thoughts

my next thought

christianity requires us to think about human, moral and language dynamics. and these are what screwed us up in the first place.

many eastern and african philosophies talk about freeing the mind from the constrains of language. and the society that language helps keep working. even christians agree that society is bad. at least the ones that see that it could be seen as bad do.

shoot if we were really a christian nation(and we are not according to the founders) , we are doing a shit terrible job at it.

we could solve world hunger! us could, the united states. we have the technology (infinite laughs)

we could become a huge church, a huge powerhouse for the lord. i mean if god is real and all that other stuff. our priorities are obviously all in the wrong place!

bush wants us to go to church so we can continue to make them and other organizations we work and contribute to rich. what he should be doing is saying there is nothing more important than god and the church tat relays his correct message, and he should try to turn this country into a giant missionary and impose religious ideas in schools. the stakes are very high if you ask me

we cant be training people to think, doubt, be skeptical, examine reality and question in lawschool, and then condone all those things in church

it causes cognitave dissonance (or as chrisitans call it "double heartedness)

we arent thinking of god or praising him when we are arguing law, when we are locking up prisoners, when we are researching drugs.

our thougts and beleifs are what matter to god, so anything that interferes with this is bad.

what's more important:

money grubbing lawyers, or what god wants?

thats what we should be thinking about if we are a christian nation.

getting rid of hunger, feeding the gosepl, and getting rid of guns and millitary.

global

commune-ism

i dont see why christians are so against comune-ism

back to my first few lines. christianity requires us to think too much. its a religion where god requires humans to think about reality in the way he wants them to think about reality.

am i wrong?

okay third point.

does brainwashing work or not.

there are child soldiers in africa, there are spies that are so good that they could say i am a woman, my name is ali baba andpass a lie detector test.

if it works, does it work for god and jesus?

i go to a church

i see chanting in a trancelike state

i see music making people happy

i see human beings together, being happy together.

as sinful as we are even a bunch of vodou followers in a room chanting and singing together are gonna feel good.

people being to gether feels good.

dont forget that we are raised in america to not talk to strangers, to be individual, every man for himself and follow the american dream, personal freedom, yay yay yay.

we worry about keeping it real and gossip (what a glorious term, the powers that be must love the idea of keeping it real, a term that twists our perception of reality. whoop de do, the blacks are now obsessed with not changing and being proud of it, and every oher race is imitating them!)

this is what we worry about in society, in church we forget about "dont talk to strangers" and we are together agian

together, feeling community that western society robs us of, together chanting go team go, lets beat those bulls, nice goal billy! go team go, lets beat those muslims, go team go, my mother and father hate me, they have forgotten about me, i am a child of the revolution, my name is baby killer

comprehending the mystery vs knowing

How can we as humans say that everything is a conception of the mind? (as passed down from universal ancestral archetypes, as influenced by societies such as: race, tribe, nation, city, family, sex... and finally recognized by the individual, who, while different and nique, was still brought up in his specific family, race, tribe and sex, and while his perception of his place in that set of societies is unique, his brain disposition can be matched somewhere out there in the stretch of human brains...)

dang, the psycho analysis makes so much sense.

but still.

the great mystery

can we ever know.

is the reason people of faith are so strongly attached to their gods precisely because their texts proclaim to them that by following them to a letter, they will infact "know" the mystery of the gods.

this is why christianity is so scary.

they say

we "know" exactly what god wants, and we know exactly what he will do if we disobey.

it takes the mystery out.

but in contemplating the mystery, what if that is precisely what god wanted: for us to know exactly what "he" wanted: in the pages of the bible

it sounds nice at first, it puts god directly in our face. its too bad that the ultimate biblical world view is so terrifying and depressing! for an ifninite being, yaweh sure has his time frame and peculiarities!

a heated tirade against god

someone said this: "Here is the simplist way to put it, non belief is always the default postion as belief requires either proof or a concept. "

someone else than said this:
"I'm afraid this still isn't very clear to me. First, when you say non-belief is default, are you making a statement about how people ought to form their beliefs, or about how they actually do? Second, it seems to me that if you think that non-belief is a default position because belief in something requires a concept of that thing, then you are assuming there are no a priori concepts. But this isn't exactly what you are saying here, since you think a "proof" is also a sufficient reason to believe in something. Its not clear to me, though, what you think a proof is. "


so i said this:
you only think their are a priori concepts because you accepted that belief. its particularly that backwards ass mindfuck thats so crazy. if the a priori concepts are really there, wouldnt everyone know it. why is god making it so hard. why doesnt he just prove it. i dont think its funny at all, infact i think its desolate and bleak and totally humorless and vile (fully realizing the chrisitan paradigm and all its implications are very very very sobering) that there are beings --

(or whatever the fuck god thinks we are, obviously not humans, because as humans, we wouldnt do the shit that god does, or lets the devil do, however the fuck all this bullshit is happeing, its either god doing it, or god letting the devil do it, either way its fucked up, and us with our flawed human nature, wouldnt like it if we knew he was the one causing it, so we created backwards ass chrisitanity that says "we/or our fallen nature" are the root of all evil and we justify sending ourselves to hell and all this other bullshit! am i saying we are good? no, but we shouldnt just accept that its all like this because god and the devil are fucking with our heads and feelings. )

--- that there are beings with consciousness that are gonna be in a world of shit forever. i think its absolutely sickening that this entire world is a delusion of the devil designed to get us to join him in hell forever. do you have any idea how infinitely fucked up this verison of the absolute reality is???

love is a sickness when its with a woman(a good sickness, but we definitely arent thinking clearly, watch the springer show!), what about when its with a being that is infinite and also all in our heads and "hearts" ... well, you can start some wars, kill some baby indians, get you some slaves, and make an empire with bullshit like that! you can get a bunch of kids singing praises all week but not learning anything. do christians want a return to dark ages? obviously knowledge is worthless, because knowledge is useless once we get into the kingdom right? i mean once we are in the kingdom clearly god will give us ample time to learn whatever he thinks is best for us to learn. so why are churches telling kids to do well in school when the bible chastizes things necessary for critical thought such as "relying on your own understanding", the "imagination of the heart" and "doubt" yes there are christians right now praying to "get rid of doubt" while the next day working out physics problems or solving court cases.

i mean if this being exists and this is absolute reality, enough with all the bullshit. god doesnt exist to fix our jobs and shit, does he exist to do whatever the fuck he wants? christians dig on that, they are like "he can do whatever he wants and he chose to save us man, how awesome is that!" does he do a bunch of shit that is not earth related like govern other dimensions where there are only two spacial dimensions and no sense of time and all its inhabitants see of other people is dots and horizontal lines?(like in flatland) , is he also controlling invisible beings that orbit asteroids in other galaxies? or is all his attention devoted to us? if it is all devoted to us, then why do we accept that its ok for him to fuck with us afterwe die. people are like "you cant argue with god" or "when you get to hell then you will know" like this is all peaches and cream and honkey dorey, when in fact its some ole bullshit! "have you read my book" says god, "theres gonna be a test" yes, i read enough, i skipped most of the crazy slave beating and army/chariot smiting stuff and went strait to the beautiful stories of jesus, the hebrews, isaac, david and solomon, valleys of dead, and job and stuff by paul, i will tell you when i have read it all in hebrew! but in the meantime, have you compared the bible to the "real world" (and yes i know that the so called real world is an illusion designed to ensnare me and get me away from jesus. but i am just baffled as to how jesus really operates!)

if he exists than people need to be clear. what is he doing?

is he controlling me right now? is he letting me write allthis?

did he give me my mind?

what about indeciciveness. people have this you know

so if today i accept jesus and tomorrow i die, im ok

but if today i say, fuck that bullshit and tomorrow i die im screwed!

it just doesnt add up. it doesnt make me feel good, it scares me shitless! i guess tharts the first step to wisdom, fear of god!

god is love and hope, do names matter?

when african where taken from their homeland and told tha their god was no good, they were forced to work on plantations in the new world, south america, caribbea and current USA. they had no unifying language, being taken from several kingdoms ad peoples (not tribes this is a misnomer)

they traded religious stries and many of them as they united through their gradual learning of the english language also started worshiping god together. they would call god "god" and sometimes "jesus" (they didnt knowmuch of christianity at this point, but sometimes they came across a bible illegaly, since they were told not to worship aytihng, and they gruadually learned that the europeans called the piritual force that they knew in africa "god" and "jesus")

their name for god was european, but their worsjip was aferican, tey put english words over vudu (west african, dahomey spirituality) and ju ju (nigerian practce) dances and melodies. aLL OF THE NEGRO SPIRITUALS ARE VUDU OR JUJU SONGS WITH ENGLIH WORDS. oops, caps lock, sorry.

their method of expereinceing god was african, their melodies were african, they still revered their ancestors and realized tat they had common ideas about god. their names were western, their understanding and practice was african.

worshiping gave tem community, it gave them hope and love wile beig treated in one of the most attrocious ways imaginable ever.

does god not givepeople hope in strenuous times? does he not give people love and community and a sense of spiritual purity?

did the africans not worship god?

did calling him jesus make it right? even though they still worsiped wth the same mental ideas as an african vudu priest or orisha priest?

is there a difference between this african spirituality in english in slavery and the completely african juju and vudu practices that are still going on wit millions of africans today?

is it any different from the puerto rican, brazilian, hatian, and cuban religions that re united themselves with the motherland, reclaiming their african origeens (santeria, vodou, candoble, macumba, lukumi)

were black christians only made right in gods eyes once they called god jesus? or once they understood thw whole bble world view and began demonizing their old ways. (even though a black pentecostle will shake and shiver with religious exctacy just like a bahian orisa worshiper i brazil, and yet the pentecostle will say that the bahian is following the devil, protestant evangelist might say they are both worshipping a demon)

feelng god = feeling ones inner divine nature?

i have two questions.

is it wise to say we are god and god is within? there could be an external god right? what about an afterlife, there could be right?


also

feeling good. we have the power to feel love, to feel an inner warmth and comfort.

i noticed when i was reading a passage from the quran, that i felt moved. i felt moved in the same way that i was taught to feel moved by the words in the bible.

tell someone they are reading "gods signature on paper" or whatever else, and a man will start to feel good wen reading the bible.

see i thought the words from the quaran where from the bible. my mind did, and so my mind let iself be moved as if it was being moved by the bible. i saw a passage with a chapter and verse marking, i clicked into bible reading mode without realizing it was written by crazy fool mohammed!

clearly this is all a mental game that religions play with its followers, as if only one scripture can move someone to feel love.

it must come from within, or god must be in all because humans wrote it all.

i also realized that i "make myselr feel moved"

its a feeling i cant describe, the feeling of reading "blessed words"

i feel it in my heart, and close to middle of my body, im sure a yogi can move the feeling around or something.

but i realized that i am used to giving myself that feeling when i am in church, when i "call on jesus" or when i read from the bible.

but i think the feeling is from within

i learned how to read the bible words without feeling anything!

and now im working on giving myself that feeling without reading or thinking any words.

what could help me out with this? im kind of experimenting.

other dimensions

there are many ideas about dimensions. for the sake of these thoughts, lets think about absolute reality.

Absolute reality for Christians is not really known to anyone. But we have the idea that god created everything, and that we are experiencing life on earth, and have the opportunity to be with god here while still alive, and then after we die, forever.


Death then, isn’t really anything but a transition phase from one reality to the next.


The problem is that we don’t know when we are gonna die. And even though it seems like nothing, since existence is gonna keep on lasting for us, after the transition we are enter in a very great situation, or a very bad one. and its gonna last forever from that point on.


im not sure as to what exactly determines who goes where. people say its god who determines everything. but we have to do something. different Christians have different ideas about this. my guess is that this has something to do with the possibility that we all think differently.

still, there must be at least two options

either we have the power to make it work so that we get out on the good side of deaths portal

or its totally on god and even when we think we are doing something, its really god doing it.


on one hand, salvation (not getting your just reward of eternal torment, one way or another) is in the hand of humans.

it is determined by what "way of gods activity in absolute reality" we have faith in.


I say this because somehow, the idea of god is” that which is in control or is the creator, or is in the position to determine what our next reality is all about", again, different believers, different answers.

we can also have faith in other ideas. but faith in what god is, how he operates, and how he affects our/his absolute creation experiment is what determines our eternal outcome.

faith is a funny word that doest seem to mean much more than this:

if we have faith in something, then we believe that something to be true


believe means that we think/know it to be true.

is there a difference between "think" and "know?" probably in one at least way of looking at it. lest examine some ideas.

if I think something, it is just a thought in my head.

But if I think something in relation to something else, then I am keeping in mind that the first something is worth thinking about!

For example.

I think I exist. "I" the idea of I, which is consciousness.

At first I was just existing. You were just existing
. some things grabbed your attention, some didn’t, but you didn’t know how to say or think anything in the English language. Or your native language, for that matter. you probably felt things, but didn’t know what to call those things.


eventually, you realized that you were you. you realized "I am an I"

this was one of your first thoughts in your language! to express a new idea, you have to think that you exist. you don’t always have to think that you/I exist. but you do, if you want to express another idea.

for example

if you want to say I run. well now you can run. you have "I"

without I, you cant think about yourself doing anything. you cant think I run, I swim, I eat, I laugh, you cant think I love or I want.

this is what I meant when I said to think a thought, you have to accept a few of the ideas in that thought as true, at least for the time being.

WELL WHAT ABOUT KNOWING SOMETHING.??

well I think that its very similar. if you know something, you think its true, at least in relation to anything that you want to describe about it, or describe in the same frame of reality as it.

of course real is just another idea, and conversations like this are wont to go into insane levels of insanity.

you don’t really know its true. because everything that we think about in our language is just a way of describing an idea. So even when we know something, we are secretly thinking "i think this is true for now" we just don’t know it!

So in the case of god, I think that believing god is a certain way is the same as knowing or thinking. If you think he is a certain way, you are secretly keeping that idea in your mind at all times, you just don’t always realize this.

You have no choice in the matter!

If you say you think god is in such a way you are making a statement about the only thing that we have the capacity to think about that is definite.

It sounds weird, but it’s true.

By definition, god is the only thing that can be whatever it is, irrelevant of what we think.

All of our reality is his too in one way or another.

God created everything; everything is in his plan, probably. Well now I am getting ahead of myself

all we "know" in the Christian "world view" is that god determines or our belief in what god is, determines what happens after we die!

He was the first thing after nothing, because he was in the beginning, he is the grand architect, the creator, and the force. By definition, he is the only thing that doesn’t change no matter what view or idea we make in our heads.

So all of these are thoughts about absolute reality.

Absolute reality for us, according to Christians, is that there is a being that made all of this, and we are part of his plan. After that, they will tell you all kinds of different things!



So now, back to dimensions.

Could this view, including god and all of us and our thoughts be just one absolute reality? And there are others as well? a dimension where maybe god is not in existence, and there are no people, and no planets, and everything is vastly different?

Or would god the god of all allness be in charge of that dimension too?

Maybe there are no other dimensions. Our god given minds just think too god damn much!

sorry, I know this got ocnfuisgn!

what if teres a dimension where we all just die and rot and cease to know or experience anytihng, what if theres also a dimension were christans here right (some of them at least, certainly not the mormons)
, what if theres a dimension where tere is just one dude, and maybe he is you, and you are expereinceing al lthis, but you are the only one actually there!!! and every time you turn your head, you experience different things, but its all just part of your individual experience, and you are the only one there, and everyone else is just a figment of your imagination. like a dream or sometihng!

or maybe thats how it is for all of us.

the first post

do our morals come from god? Does god instill our sense of right and wrong?

yes?

Than why do we need saving. Why are we destined for hell and vile creatures? Christians say all cultures have a sense of right and wrong. Even in their pagan beliefs. So why do they need jesus.

How is salvation in the same dynamic as humans accepting a gift. We didn’t ask to be here. Here happened to us. We have no choice. So god just created us to find out if we would accept his gift, which is really just the only choice that we would want. So why did " he" make it a choice.

Does he get amusement from all this?

He created conscious beings. Presumably the angels and demons are conscious too. If satan is going to hell and its going to suck for him, than satan must have the capacity to be tortured. So god created at least one being capable of being tortured and being in a state of torment… and “he” fully intends on torturing said being “forever”

Based on who you beleie, there are anywhere from 3 to billions of conscious beings also going to hell\ (the idea of people in ell now, i THINK, is a biblical impossiblity, since final judgement has not occured yet)

Of course none of us asked to be here, we are all randomly dropped here. God only knows if we where somewhere else before. Maybe you the reader are here this instant, and all your memories from up to two miunutes ago are part of a computer simulation or something that would have the same affect on your memories and thoughts. Maybe you are a pink elephant in a coma. maybe the afterlife is real, and its actually gonna be hell for everyone, and we are all in for a big crappy suprize. maybe the rapture already happened!

Maybe you, the reader are the only thing in all existence of all existence, and there is absolutely nothing else but your reality. gee you hope it doesnt last forever eh?